Measurement Table - are value_as_concept_id and value_as_number mutually exclusive?

CDM Builders
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Friends disputants:

Please come today at 1 pm ET. We will put this to bed. By “this” I mean should we allow both value_as_concept_id and value_as_number (and potentially unit_concept_id). Please keep in mind when you are discussing what “researchers” want that we are not treating patients from these records, and we are in a network world were we have no direct access to patient-level data. Everything has to make sense remotely, blindly.

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Hi @Christian_Reich,
Do you have the conclusion of the meeting mentioned ? could you share those ?
I have the exact same questions for microbiology lab data : antibiotic susceptibility tests gives an MIC then transformed into a category (Resistant, Intermediate, Susceptible). Thks

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Hi @GanselX and @Christian_Reich ,

Looking around for documentation on the outcome of this. Seems to have been resolved with the documentation currently present in the 5.4 documentation for the fields in both the Measurement table AND the Observation table. Closing the loop on this thread, regarding resolution?

https://ohdsi.github.io/CommonDataModel/cdm54.html#measurement

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Hm. Can’t remember anything from the years 20 and 21, can you? :frowning: Let me find out.

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Definitely DEFINITELY not, @Christian_Reich :sweat_smile:. I looked through Themis and couldn’t find anything on this in measurement (link to convention), though recognize this may predate the accumulation of conventions for Themis. The “one-to-many” general convention documented in Themis (link to convention) may apply to this topic. Along with the 5.4 documentation on measurement (measurment table; specific sentence below), I can see a pathway to resolving the ambiguity in this thread. I’m reaching out, hoping my understanding is accurate!

For some Measurement Concepts, the result is included in the test. For example, ICD10 CONCEPT_ID 45548980 ‘Abnormal level of unspecified serum enzyme’ indicates a Measurement and the result (abnormal)… In this example, the ‘Maps to’ relationship directs to 4046263 ‘Enzyme measurement’ as well as a ‘Maps to value’ record to 4135493 ‘Abnormal’.

My understanding of the Themis conventions and the above entry from Measurement conventions indicate that the aforementioned example in this thread, zzz | Positive, points to us having measurement_concept_id = <a standard concept id for 'zzz'> and value_as_concept_id = 9191 within the same measurement_id row.